Hidden Gold: An Uncensored Interview on Cross-Selling Annuities to Aged Leads
Guest: Jason Biggins, Independent Broker & Annuity Specialist Topic: How to stop chasing expensive leads and start digging for retirement gold in your backyard.
Badass Team: Jason, thanks for sitting down with us. We’ve been seeing a lot of chatter in the groups lately. Agents are grinding, buying aged leads, closing the life insurance, but they feel like they’re leaving money on the table. You’ve been screaming from the rooftops that we’re all missing the point. What’s the deal?
Jason Biggins: Look, thanks for having me. Honestly? It drives me crazy. I watch guys in these forums complaining that they “only” made $600 this week on a batch of leads, and I’m just sitting there shaking my head because I know for a fact—like, absolute mathematical fact—that they probably hung up the phone on ten grand worth of commissions.
We have this mindset in the industry where we get pigeonholed. You’re a “Final Expense Guy” or you’re a “Mortgage Protection Gal.” So you get on the phone, you pitch your little $50 a month death benefit, you get the credit card, and you run to the bank. And that’s fine. That pays the light bill. But you are literally stepping over dollars to pick up dimes.
The biggest secret that nobody wants to talk about because it’s not “sexy” is that aged life leads… these two-dollar, three-dollar leads that everyone thinks are just for burial insurance? They are the single best source for annuity sales on the planet. Period.
Badass Team: Hold on. Better than direct mail? Better than seminar marketing? Those annuity leads cost hundreds of dollars. You’re saying a $2 aged lead is better?
Jason Biggins: Dollar for dollar? Absolutely. Think about the math.
If I want to go sell annuities the “traditional” way, I gotta go rent a steakhouse, send out 5,000 mailers, buy everyone dinner, stand up there and do a song and dance for two hours, and maybe—maybe—I get three appointments. I’m out five grand before I even shake a hand.
Or, I can buy a batch of 100 aged leads for what… a couple hundred bucks? These are people who already raised their hand. They already told us they are worried about dying. They are worried about their finances. And here is the kicker that most agents miss: Look at the demographics. Who buys Final Expense? Seniors. Who buys annuities? Seniors.
It is the exact same person.
So I’m on the phone with Mrs. Jones, she’s 68, she’s retired, she’s living on a fixed income. She is terrified of running out of money. She is terrified of the government. She is terrified of the stock market crashing again like it did in 2008 or 2022. She is the perfect candidate for a Fixed Index Annuity. And I didn’t have to buy her a steak dinner to find her. I just had to ask her a couple of questions while I was already writing up her life insurance.
Badass Team: Okay, so the opportunity is there. But why do most agents miss it? Is it fear?
Jason Biggins: It’s totally fear. It’s fear and it’s ignorance, and I don’t mean that in a mean way. I mean they just don’t know.
Most insurance agents are terrified of the word “Annuity.” They think you need a Series 7 license or you need to be some Wall Street wizard to sell them. They think it’s complicated. They think, “Oh man, I barely know how to explain Whole Life vs Term, how am I gonna explain an index strategy?”
So they don’t ask. They get the life insurance app, they say “Thanks Mrs. Jones,” and they hang up.
And here is what happens next. Three weeks later, some guy like me calls Mrs. Jones. And I don’t just sell her insurance. I ask her about her retirement. I ask her about that 401k from the job she left five years ago that’s just sitting there getting eaten up by fees. And boom, I move $150,000 into an annuity. I make a $9,000 commission on the same lead you just made $400 on.
That’s why I say you’re stepping over dollars to pick up dimes. You did the hard work! You got her on the phone! You built the rapport! You got her to trust you with her social security number! And then you stopped right before the finish line.
Badass Team: Let’s get tactical then. You’re on the phone with an aged lead. You’re working the Badass leads we sent you. You’ve gone through your normal script. At what point do you pivot? How do you even bring it up without sounding like a greedy salesperson?
Jason Biggins: That’s the million-dollar question. You have to be smooth with it. You can’t just be like, “Hey, give me your retirement money.” You have to use what I call the “Columbo” method. You know the old show? “Just one more thing.”
So, I go through my whole process. I help them with the life insurance. I get that solidified. “Okay Mrs. Jones, we got you approved, the policy is coming in the mail, your grandkids are protected. You don’t have to worry about that burden anymore.”
I let them breathe. I let them feel that relief.
Then, just as we are winding down, I say this:
“Hey, Mrs. Jones, while I have you on the line… I know we just fixed the problem of what happens if you pass away. But a lot of my clients in your age bracket are actually more worried about what happens while they’re still alive. You know, with inflation and the stock market being so crazy lately. Are you pretty happy with the returns you’re getting on your retirement accounts, or are you kinda worried about losing that money if the market takes another dive?”
That’s it. That is the magic sentence.
Badass Team: That’s pretty gentle. What do they usually say?
Jason Biggins: They usually vomit their anxiety all over you. Seriously. It opens the floodgates.
You have to remember, these people are at home watching the news. They see the ticker tape going red. They hear about banks collapsing or wars breaking out. They are stressed. But nobody ever asks them about it! Their kids don’t ask. Their bank teller doesn’t ask.
So when they say, “Well, honestly Jason, I looked at my 401k statement last month and I lost four thousand dollars, and it made me sick to my stomach,” … that is the green light. That is the green flag.
Once they admit pain, you have a sale. If they say, “Oh no, I love playing the market, I’m a day trader, I love risk,” then fine. You move on. But 90% of the people buying Final Expense are risk-averse. They hate risk. They just want to know their money is safe.
Badass Team: So once they admit that pain, what’s the pitch? A lot of agents get stuck in the weeds explaining caps and spreads and participation rates. How do you keep it simple?
Jason Biggins: Dude, never talk about participation rates on the first call. You will put them to sleep. You have to sell the concept, not the product.
I use the “Safe Money” pitch. It’s super simple. I tell them:
“Mrs. Jones, what if I could show you an account that works like a ratchet? You know how a ratchet works, right? You turn it one way, it tightens. You try to turn it back, it locks. It can’t go backwards.”
I tell them, “We have accounts where if the market goes up this year, you get a piece of the gains. Your account goes up. But if the market crashes next year—if it drops 20%, 30%, whatever—your account just locks. It stays flat. You don’t lose a single penny of your principal. You keep all the gains you made the year before. Does that sound like something that would help you sleep better at night?”
That’s the Fixed Index Annuity pitch. I didn’t say “FIA.” I didn’t say “S&P 500 point-to-point.” I just said: You win if it goes up, you don’t lose if it goes down.
For a 70-year-old widow who is terrified of becoming a burden on her children, that sounds like magic. But it’s not magic, it’s just an insurance product. And guess what? As insurance agents, we are the only ones allowed to sell it! Stockbrokers can’t sell “zero loss.” Only we can.
Badass Team: I love the ratchet analogy. That clicks. But let’s play devil’s advocate. You get the guy who says, “I have a financial advisor. I’ve been with Bob at Edward Jones for twenty years. He handles all that.” How do you get past Bob?
Jason Biggins: Oh, I love Bob. Bob is my best friend because Bob is usually lazy.
Here’s the thing about financial advisors—and I’m generalizing, but it’s mostly true—they get paid on assets under management. They want that money in the market so they can charge their 1% fee every year, win or lose.
So when a prospect says, “I have an advisor,” I don’t fight it. I validate it. I say:
“That is awesome, Mr. Smith. I’m glad you have a pro in your corner. Honestly, most people don’t, so you’re ahead of the game. Let me ask you though… when was the last time Bob sat down with you and guaranteed—in writing—that you would never lose your principal due to a market correction?”
There is usually a long silence. Because Bob has never done that. Bob can’t do that.
Then I follow up with: “See, that’s the difference. Bob is a ‘Growth’ guy. His job is to try and make you rich. I’m a ‘Safety’ guy. My job is to make sure you never stay poor. I’m not trying to replace Bob. I just think it makes sense to take some of your winnings off the table—maybe the portion you absolutely cannot afford to lose—and put it somewhere safe where Bob can’t gamble with it. Does that make sense?”
It’s the “partial rollover” strategy. I’m not asking for the whole million dollars. I’m saying, “Hey, let’s take $100k of that and lock it down.” And usually, the client agrees because deep down, they know the market is a casino and they want to cash out some chips.
Badass Team: That’s powerful. You’re not competing, you’re complimenting. You’re the safety net.
Jason Biggins: Exactly. And that’s why aged leads are so good for this. These people aren’t usually the ultra-wealthy who have sophisticated hedge funds. They are normal, blue-collar folks who saved up $150k, maybe $300k in a 401k over 40 years of driving a truck or working at a plant.
That money is their life. If they lose 20% of it, it changes their lifestyle. They can’t go visit the grandkids. They can’t fix the roof. So they are emotionally attached to that money in a way that a multi-millionaire isn’t.
When you offer them safety, you aren’t just selling a product. You’re selling peace of mind. I know that sounds cheesy, but it’s true.
Badass Team: Let’s talk about the specific types of leads. We sell aged leads that are 0-3 months old, 3-6 months, etc. Do you find that the “older” leads are worse for this, or does it not matter?
Jason Biggins: Honestly? It doesn’t matter. In fact, sometimes the older leads are better.
Think about it. If I call a lead that’s 48 hours old, that person is getting hammered. Their phone is ringing off the hook. They are annoyed. Their guard is up.
If I call a lead that’s 9 months old… nobody has called them in six months. They’ve forgotten they even filled out the form. The conversation is way more chill.
“Hey, this is Jason, I’m getting back to you about that request for the state-regulated life insurance programs…”
They’re like, “Oh, yeah, I think I remember that.”
Because the pressure is off, you can have a real conversation. You can ask about their family. You can ask about their job. And that rapport is what leads to the annuity conversation. You can’t pivot to a $200,000 transaction if they think you’re a telemarketer trying to scam them. You have to be a human. Aged leads give you the space to be human because you aren’t fighting 50 other agents for the same ten seconds of attention.
Badass Team: That makes sense. Less noise, more connection. Before we wrap up, what are the “Green Flags” agents should look for on the lead sheet? Like, before they even dial, can they spot a potential annuity?
Jason Biggins: Sometimes, yeah. If the lead sheet has “Occupation,” look for “Retired.” That’s obvious. But also look for “Engineer,” “Teacher,” “Nurse,” “Plant Manager.” Look for steady careers. Those people have pensions or 401ks.
But really, the Green Flags come out in the first two minutes of the call. Listen for:
- “I’m on a fixed income.”
- “My husband handled the money and he just passed.” (This is a huge one—widows need help consolidating).
- “I hate paying taxes.”
- “I’m getting killed on these CD rates.”
If you hear any of that, write a big “A” on your paper. Do not hang up until you have asked the pivot question. Even if they don’t buy the life insurance!
I’ve had calls where I couldn’t help them with life insurance because they had terminal cancer or something crazy. But I pivoted: “I’m so sorry I can’t help with the coverage, but let me ask… with everything going on, are your finances in order for your family?” And I sold an annuity.
Don’t let the “No” on the life insurance stop the “Yes” on the annuity.
Badass Team: Jason, this has been awesome. Real talk. If you could give one piece of homework to the agents reading this—guys who have maybe never sold an annuity in their life—what should they do tomorrow?
Jason Biggins: Two things.
One, go get contracted with an annuity carrier. You don’t need fifty. Just get one or two good carriers that offer Fixed Index Annuities. Ask your IMO or upline. If they don’t have one, find a new upline.
Two, go buy a batch of aged leads. Don’t buy ten. Buy like 100 or 200. You need at-bats. Commit to asking the Pivot Question to every single person who picks up the phone for one week. Even if you’re scared. Even if your voice shakes. Just ask: “Are you happy with the returns on your retirement accounts?”
I guarantee you, if you ask that 50 times, you will find someone who says “No.” And that one “No” is going to turn into a $5,000 paycheck. And once you cash that first annuity check, you will never look at an aged lead the same way again. You’ll realize you’ve been sitting on a gold mine the whole time.
Badass Team: “Stop stepping over dollars to pick up dimes.” I love it. Thanks for the time, Jason.
Jason Biggins: Anytime, guys. Now go dial.
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